Sunday, June 14, 2009

Missed the Hall of Fame by "That Much"


This is Chris Osgood losing his net on Maxime Talbot seconds before the Penguins Cup winning goal was scored on Friday night. He's overplaying Talbot to the stick side based on scouting reports that Talbot likes to shoot high over the blocker. He just overplayed the overplay - and Talbot has a clear view of about 12 square feet of net. Now if the shot was going blocker side, even2 or 3 feet wide of the blocker side, Osgood is making that stop:o) But Talbot, even though Malkin thinks "His hands not so good", ain't no beer leaguer - he see's that much net - he's hitting it - preference to the other side or not. So Osgood, for that split second, loses his net, loses the cup, and quite possibly, loses the Hall of Fame.

For the record, I think Osgood is deserving of a Hall nod. He is the most under-rated goalie of his generation. Sure, the guy has played on some great teams in Detroit, but he's also played a few seasons on some not so great New York Islanders and St. Louis teams. Osgood has now played 16 NHL seasons and has never, never, had a losing record. He had 23 wins and 8 losses in his rookie year, unfortunately for him, Brodeur had 27 wins (and 11 losses) and won the Calder (I believe Jason Arnott was 2nd in rookie voting that year, Osgood 3rd....but i can't find that info anywhere). In 1996, he finished with an incredible record of 39w, 6L, 5T and was robbed of the Vezina Trophy by the Net Detective Jim Carrey's 35W, 24L, 9T record. He's got three Stanley Cups, 2 as a starter. He's one of only 2 goalies to win Cups as the starter 10 years apart - Terry Sawchuck is the other. He's 4th in career playoff wins, 10th in the regular season. Of course stats alone don't neceessarily translate into the Hall of Fame. I'm not even sure what the standards for goalies are? Look at Harry Lumley and Eddie Giacomin's stats and wonder what got them there. Esposito is in the Hall with 400+ wins and no Cups - does that mean Ed Belfour(1 cup - thanks Bruce) and Curtis Joseph (zero) should be as well? Who knows? There's not a ton of Goalies in the Hall so I guess you really have to be a standout to be elected. And there's a few goalies in recent history with similar stats to Osgood that aren't in the Hall. Tom Barasso and Mike Vernon both had stellar careers and similar wins totals to Osgoods current 389. Both have 2 Cups. But both have about 60 more losses on their records than Osgood. Andy Moog and Martin Brodeur* are the only 2 other goalies I can think of that have 3 cups and aren't in the Hall of Fame (*yet). But Andy Moogs Cups (save for the first one) came largely from the bench - even in 1984, he only got into 7 games. Moogs regular season totals are very similar to Osgood's - the only thing that seperates them are those 2 Cups Osgood won as a starter. There are no goalies that have won 4 or more Cups that aren't in the Hall. So if Osgood makes that save on Talbot, if he doesn't step one foot too far to the right, and the Wings come back to win that game - does that make Chris Osgood a Hockey Hall of Fame goaltender? If not, why not? Because he played for the powerhouse Wings? Well, Chris Osgood took over for Bob Essensa when he faltered in Detroit. He did the same thing in the playoffs some 15 years later when Domic Hasek couldn't carry the load for the talented Wings. In between, Curtis Joseph couldn't get it done for Detroit in the playoffs. Billy Smith is a HOFer - did he not have the luxury of playing for a powerhouse team? He's got some stinker years on his resume too - Osgood doesn't. How about my all time favorite player Grant Fuhr? Any doubt his wins weren't bouyed a little by playing for the 80's Oilers? Ken Drydens teams weren't half bad either. Patrick Roy? Not a lot of teams out there that had the talent level of Sakic, Forsberg and company. Take a look at every goaltending stat and Osgood lands in the discussion in every one. The Hall of Fame should be part of that discussion as well.

22 comments:

Bruce said...

Esposito is in the Hall with 400+ wins and no Cups - does that mean Ed Belfour and Curtis Joseph should be as well?

Belfour should be a first-ballot HHoF selection. 484 wins plus 88 in the playoffs, plus some very solid stats across the board. Eddie the Eagle also won a Stanley Cup, unlike Tony O or CuJo. To me Belfour's name belongs in the discussion with Hasek, Roy and Brodeur as the Big Four of the Dead Puck Era.

I think CuJo will and probably should get elected as well, although it may take a couple of years on the ballot. One of four modern goalies to surpass Sawchuk's standard for Wins, and his playoff stats are actually pretty good aside from the losing record (63 W, 66 L).

As for Osgood, he's still just 36, and with 389 wins, 500 isn't out of reach. Indeed 400 may be the magic number: every HHoF-eligible guy who reached that milestone is in, and the ones who are still or were recently active -- Brodeur, Belfour, Joseph -- are all solid bets. I'm not saying it's right, but threshold milestones seem to affect HHoF voters.

I don't know if you saw the recent Osgood discussion on the Contrarian Goaltender's site. While I don't always agree with his conclusions -- he said mildly -- his site is required reading for us batshit crazy goalies. The comments section tends to get polarized, but can be an entertaining and informative read in its own right.

Nice freeze frame of Osgood's terrible positioning on the Cup-winning goal, btw. You saved yourself a thousand words right there. :) My only quibble is that while Talbot might have seen 12 square feet of net, the perspective that matters is that of the puck, which only "saw" about 8 square feet. :D

Oilman said...

Bruce - don't know how I forgot that Belfour won the cup! Fixed.

I've visited the contrarian goaltender a few times from your link - but not for the Osgood thing - I'll look it up. Some interesting stuff over there - but the whole premise of Brodeur as the fraud bothers me a bit....I'm not at all convinced that Trevor Kidd would have done what Brodeur has had the drafting been reversed:o)

BTW - I loved Osgood finally standing up for himself near the beginning of the playoffs....said something like "I don't have the most playoff wins in Wings history because I'm a bad goaltender".....he is the Dangerfield of hockey.

Oilman said...

Nice freeze frame of Osgood's terrible positioning on the Cup-winning goal, btw. You saved yourself a thousand words right there. :) My only quibble is that while Talbot might have seen 12 square feet of net, the perspective that matters is that of the puck, which only "saw" about 8 square feet. :D

Yeah well he dragged the puck in a little and released it right in front of his left foot;o)...i stand by my 12sqft!:o)

Oilman said...

BTW Bruce - just read the article you referenced and saw your comment about how Osgood is comparable with Moog, Barasso, and Vernon......spooky! I honestly had not read that before.

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